Comments on: What Holocaust?

By: Tahir

Tahir — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 06:25:44 +0000

an interesting discussion can be found at:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/barrybar/358239139/

By: shahid

shahid — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 10:47:38 +0000

Ah, I see, you want the Palestinians to shut their mouths and stop screaming before the Zionist oppressor considers removing his boot from their face.

Funny how we have to stop the “name-calling” before Zionists and “Anglo Saxons” will stop the murder, rape, occupation and oppression. (Do point out the name-calling in this post though…)

You naively talk of the Palestinians celebrating 9/11. Did you personally witness every Palestinian celebrating? Do you expect me to believe that a man as intelligent and mature as yourself bought that garbage? I take it you turn a blind eye to all the Americans rejoicing at the deaths and rapes and murders committed by US soldiers, pilots, politicians and their paid military and corporate mercenaries in Iraq? Of course you do.

You want me to engage how, like Abu Mazen? How has his obsequiousness helped his people? Of course they are disorganised and tribal. That’s what 60 years of occupation, oppression, infiltration, interference and divide and rule leads to. So please, drop the hypocrisy, and don’t patronise me.

I’m not here to persuade anyone. It is you who misses the point entirely. My job is to convey the message.

(BTW, glad you’re enjoying Lyon. I’m there every year, it’s my favourite French city.)

By: Tom Paine

Tom Paine — Mon, 04 Aug 2008 08:16:35 +0000

I am sure you are right guys. Calling people names will certainly change their minds. Keep up the good work.

By: Yakoub

Yakoub — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:28:26 +0000

I think Shahid told it as it is. The Zionists are monsters, but most of the world pretends they’re actually victims. The Zionist media machine has been extremely effective, and the Palestinian response has been troubled by corruption, but I think the reason people in the West have not been convinced is more a matter of decadence than anything else. Most people can’t be bothered to dig deep enough past the dirt and their own self-interest to see the truth. To dismiss 60 years of genocide as a ‘raw deal’ and somehow fault the Palestinians for this crime against humanity is morally repugnant. As for Grim Reaper Lipman, I watched the interview, and I have no doubt what she meant was ‘Jewish lives are worth more than those of darkies’.

By: DE

DE — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 01:36:37 +0000

So because a handful of foolish Palestinians played up to the cameras, and some Western media agencies thought it made meaningful news, fairness and balance must now come to an end? Don’t be daft.

I don’t deny that the Palestinians have no eye for the Western liberal zeitgeist, but even Fox viewing Americans have the power to view events dispassionately. I hope if a robber throws you out of your house, the police use factual evidence not astrology to decide on the right action to take.

The Palestinains largest visible political errors were made in the 70s when they pissed off other Arab nations. It was nothing to do with Israeli diplomacy. Israel resorts to violence quicker than the Mafia if they feel wronged in any way. The brave Jews in evil Muselmen lands makes good TV, but if they were a South American nation, they would be written off as just another banana republic.

By: Tom Paine

Tom Paine — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:58:27 +0000

I love the Lipman quote, of which you have completely missed the point. She is making the case that people who strap bombs to their own have no right to speak of life being cheap to Israelis. You have relayed that to your readers – though it’s a powerful attack on your own position.

Can I suggest you read John Gee’s “Unequal Conflict?” (http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Conflict-Palestinians-John-Gee/dp/1566563038). He’s pro-Palestinian and worked alongside them (he was a press officer for CABU and was part of the Palestinian delegation to Oslo) but explains how they lost. It’s very largely to do with their failure (like yours) to engage with the world and make their case. Just like you, they alienate all around them with abuse, rather than intelligent argument.

Compare and contrast with Israeli diplomacy. From the foundation of the State of Israel they had people from all over the world, who could engage with other nations persuasively, intelligently and often in their own languages. The Palestinians on the other hand were organised tribally and followed leaders who happened to be the heads of the right families, however stupid they might be. Of course they were outclassed and outmanoeuvred throughout. They still are.

They lost the world’s sympathy forever when they stupidly went onto the streets to rejoice at 9/11. At that moment the world’s mental image of Palestinians (whom I accept have had a very raw deal) was fixed for all time. Sad, but true. Writing like yours in their support merely reinforces that impression.

Re-read what you wrote, Shahid. If it was by anyone else about any other issue, would YOU be persuaded? Would you honestly expect anyone to have their mind changed by such words? Frankly, the Israelis could hardly find anyone to make their case better.