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	<title>Comments on: Shari`a</title>
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	<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/</link>
	<description>Islamophobia means never having to admit you&#039;re racist</description>
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		<title>By: Roger Thornhill</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3049</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger Thornhill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3049</guid>
		<description>While it is tempting to consider getting mediaeval on their arses, once they are caught, I do not agree with death. They are no longer a clear and present danger, so to take them from a cell and then kill them is State murder in my view.

However, I do believe that, as well as not being taken out of the cell to be killed, they should not be taken out of their cell AT ALL. Life. Rot in prison. Not interested in arguments about &quot;cost&quot;, as that is subordinate to the need to not have the State kill in cold blood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it is tempting to consider getting mediaeval on their arses, once they are caught, I do not agree with death. They are no longer a clear and present danger, so to take them from a cell and then kill them is State murder in my view.</p>
<p>However, I do believe that, as well as not being taken out of the cell to be killed, they should not be taken out of their cell AT ALL. Life. Rot in prison. Not interested in arguments about &#8220;cost&#8221;, as that is subordinate to the need to not have the State kill in cold blood.</p>
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		<title>By: Fuad</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3042</link>
		<dc:creator>Fuad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 21:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3042</guid>
		<description>@Shahid
&lt;blockquote&gt;In Islam, all of these boys, if found guilty, would be summarily executed&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Islamic punishment for adultery is lashing the guilty person with a hundred lashes as mentioned in verse 24:2.

24:2 ((The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment)).

However, I agree with you these boys did not commit adultery only, but also Hiraabah (using terrorism against others just to make mischief). The famous Muslim scholar Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi defined Muhaarib (a person who commit Hiraabah) as follows: ((One who puts people in terror on the road, whether or not with a weapon, at night or at day, in urban areas or in open spaces, in the palace of a caliph or in a mosque, with or without partner, in a desert or in a village, in a large or in a small city, with one or more people making people fear that they will be killed, or have their money taken, or be raped whether the attackers are one or many)).

Therefore, according to Sharia law, these boys shall receive two punishments: one for adultery and the other for Hiraabah.

The Islamic punishment for Hiraabah is mentioned in Quranic verse 5:33. The verse gives four choices of punishment for the judge to decide.

5:33 ((The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom)).

So, the first choice is 100 lashes for adultery, then execution for Hiraabah. I would go for this choice if the boys were married or if their deed included killing.

The second choice is 100 lashes, then crucifixion. I would go for this choice if their Hiraabah caused extreme terror to the society (most likely, it did).

The third choice is 100 lashes, then their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. I would go for this choice if they also committed robbing during Hiraabah.

The fourth choice is 100 lashes, then they should be expelled out of the land. Personally, if I were the judge, I would rather choose this punishment for them. This would prevent these boys from committing the same crime again.

&lt;blockquote&gt;If I had my way, a distinctly un-Islamic way, I’d have these boys gang-raped by state-employed-gay rapists for several weeks&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I know you are just kidding brother; I trust that your way would be the Islamic way only since you are a 100% Muslim. 
4:65 ((But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in Islam) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission)).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shahid</p>
<blockquote><p>In Islam, all of these boys, if found guilty, would be summarily executed</p></blockquote>
<p>The Islamic punishment for adultery is lashing the guilty person with a hundred lashes as mentioned in verse 24:2.</p>
<p>24:2 ((The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment)).</p>
<p>However, I agree with you these boys did not commit adultery only, but also Hiraabah (using terrorism against others just to make mischief). The famous Muslim scholar Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi defined Muhaarib (a person who commit Hiraabah) as follows: ((One who puts people in terror on the road, whether or not with a weapon, at night or at day, in urban areas or in open spaces, in the palace of a caliph or in a mosque, with or without partner, in a desert or in a village, in a large or in a small city, with one or more people making people fear that they will be killed, or have their money taken, or be raped whether the attackers are one or many)).</p>
<p>Therefore, according to Sharia law, these boys shall receive two punishments: one for adultery and the other for Hiraabah.</p>
<p>The Islamic punishment for Hiraabah is mentioned in Quranic verse 5:33. The verse gives four choices of punishment for the judge to decide.</p>
<p>5:33 ((The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom)).</p>
<p>So, the first choice is 100 lashes for adultery, then execution for Hiraabah. I would go for this choice if the boys were married or if their deed included killing.</p>
<p>The second choice is 100 lashes, then crucifixion. I would go for this choice if their Hiraabah caused extreme terror to the society (most likely, it did).</p>
<p>The third choice is 100 lashes, then their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. I would go for this choice if they also committed robbing during Hiraabah.</p>
<p>The fourth choice is 100 lashes, then they should be expelled out of the land. Personally, if I were the judge, I would rather choose this punishment for them. This would prevent these boys from committing the same crime again.</p>
<blockquote><p>If I had my way, a distinctly un-Islamic way, I’d have these boys gang-raped by state-employed-gay rapists for several weeks</p></blockquote>
<p>I know you are just kidding brother; I trust that your way would be the Islamic way only since you are a 100% Muslim.<br />
4:65 ((But nay, by thy Lord, they will not believe (in Islam) until they make thee judge of what is in dispute between them and find within themselves no dislike of that which thou decidest, and submit with full submission)).</p>
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		<title>By: Fuad</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3041</link>
		<dc:creator>Fuad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 21:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3041</guid>
		<description>@ Tom Paine and @Ali

For your information, in the case of these boys, Sharia law does not required any witness since the boys have already “admitted the offences”. Moreover, 4 witnesses would be required for adultery crime when there is no evidence or confession, but 2 witnesses would be enough for the terrorism crime (Hiraabah). I trust that you do not suggest punishing someone without any evidence, confession or witnesses!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Tom Paine and @Ali</p>
<p>For your information, in the case of these boys, Sharia law does not required any witness since the boys have already “admitted the offences”. Moreover, 4 witnesses would be required for adultery crime when there is no evidence or confession, but 2 witnesses would be enough for the terrorism crime (Hiraabah). I trust that you do not suggest punishing someone without any evidence, confession or witnesses!</p>
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		<title>By: DE</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3039</link>
		<dc:creator>DE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 15:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3039</guid>
		<description>&gt;I don’t believe there is a queue if gay rapists lining up to work for the &gt;state. This sounds to me like a very homophobic suggestion. 

While I agree with your sentiments, Shahid is pointing out that the current system does not address moral expectations - irrespective of faith. 

Yes, boys should not be punished as fully developed adults, but there is a problem beyond this. The article implicates passers by as well as 9 children. This is not rights-of-passage borderline behaviour, it is close to Clockwork Orange.  

At least thinking about Sharia law pushes us out of stasis to wondering if society is working as we expect it to. &quot;Long prison sentences&quot;  is akin to saying &quot;harder to remove underware&quot; in this context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;I don’t believe there is a queue if gay rapists lining up to work for the &gt;state. This sounds to me like a very homophobic suggestion. </p>
<p>While I agree with your sentiments, Shahid is pointing out that the current system does not address moral expectations &#8211; irrespective of faith. </p>
<p>Yes, boys should not be punished as fully developed adults, but there is a problem beyond this. The article implicates passers by as well as 9 children. This is not rights-of-passage borderline behaviour, it is close to Clockwork Orange.  </p>
<p>At least thinking about Sharia law pushes us out of stasis to wondering if society is working as we expect it to. &#8220;Long prison sentences&#8221;  is akin to saying &#8220;harder to remove underware&#8221; in this context.</p>
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		<title>By: Wouldn&#8217;t it be nice if everyone was nice: FAIL &#171; The Landed Underclass</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3038</link>
		<dc:creator>Wouldn&#8217;t it be nice if everyone was nice: FAIL &#171; The Landed Underclass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3038</guid>
		<description>[...] cites the blog of one Suspect Paki who, on the subject of a rape case, says:  In Islam, all of these boys, if found guilty, would be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] cites the blog of one Suspect Paki who, on the subject of a rape case, says:  In Islam, all of these boys, if found guilty, would be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: marksany</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3037</link>
		<dc:creator>marksany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 13:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3037</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t believe there is a queue if gay rapists lining up to work for the state. This sounds to me like a very homophobic suggestion. State punishment should be aimed at preventing these boys from committing the same offence again and providing deterrent to other potential offenders and should not descend into violent revenge. Long prison sentences serve this purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe there is a queue if gay rapists lining up to work for the state. This sounds to me like a very homophobic suggestion. State punishment should be aimed at preventing these boys from committing the same offence again and providing deterrent to other potential offenders and should not descend into violent revenge. Long prison sentences serve this purpose.</p>
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		<title>By: Ali</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3036</link>
		<dc:creator>Ali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3036</guid>
		<description>In Islam the girl would require 4 witnesses present at the time of the rape.  So I don&#039;t think the boys would have been found guilty and hanged in an Islamic court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Islam the girl would require 4 witnesses present at the time of the rape.  So I don&#8217;t think the boys would have been found guilty and hanged in an Islamic court.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Paine</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3035</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Paine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 09:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3035</guid>
		<description>Sadly, under Shari&#039;a Law, it is far more likely that the victim would be punished as an adulterer. To prove rape under Shari&#039;a requires a confession (fairly unlikely, when the punishment is death) or the evidence of four male Muslim witnesses. Although much is made of Shari&#039;a Law requiring two female witnesses to equate to the testimony of one male, it does not accept the evidence of females at all in such cases.
I have no sympathy with these scum, Shahid, but it&#039;s disingenuous to suggest that the Shari&#039;a way would be any better. Sharia courts in Bangladesh regularly punish raped minors by flogging. Sharia courts in Pakistan have punished thousands of raped women by long term imprisonment.
I understand and respect your pride in your heritage and your desire to evangelise Islam, but frankly you are barking up the wrong tree on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, under Shari&#8217;a Law, it is far more likely that the victim would be punished as an adulterer. To prove rape under Shari&#8217;a requires a confession (fairly unlikely, when the punishment is death) or the evidence of four male Muslim witnesses. Although much is made of Shari&#8217;a Law requiring two female witnesses to equate to the testimony of one male, it does not accept the evidence of females at all in such cases.<br />
I have no sympathy with these scum, Shahid, but it&#8217;s disingenuous to suggest that the Shari&#8217;a way would be any better. Sharia courts in Bangladesh regularly punish raped minors by flogging. Sharia courts in Pakistan have punished thousands of raped women by long term imprisonment.<br />
I understand and respect your pride in your heritage and your desire to evangelise Islam, but frankly you are barking up the wrong tree on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Naz</title>
		<link>http://suspectpaki.com/2008/12/06/%d8%b4%d8%b1%d9%8a%d8%b9%d8%a9/comment-page-1/#comment-3034</link>
		<dc:creator>Naz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 02:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://suspectpaki.com/?p=970#comment-3034</guid>
		<description>I agree with you 100% about the punishment they should recieve. That&#039;s disgusting. Absoloutely sickening. I&#039;m convinced generations are getting worse and worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you 100% about the punishment they should recieve. That&#8217;s disgusting. Absoloutely sickening. I&#8217;m convinced generations are getting worse and worse.</p>
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